It's mornings like this I wish Starbucks was in Kilkenny. One white chocolate mocha with cream and a few cinnamon sprinkles please.
1 year, 7 months ago.
34 comments so far
OOooohhhh I could go for one of those! Its no Starbucks but the coffee in that place over by S&N was pretty good, swing be there for your morning fix maybe?
I'd nearly hop on a plane back to Toronto to grab one. One of the first things I intend on doing there next year. Haven't been to that coffee place since (across town), may wind up there later in desperation.
Settling instead for a cup of tea in the office. Coffee machine in nearby shop is gone to pieces altogether and don't up for the drive to town for a coffee. We'll see what this afternoon brings. I will have my white chocolate mocha!
@alexia: there is no reason why you can't make these specialisation coffees at home too.
I just don't like the way SB sells there coffee. And how they source it.
They make great mugs, but coffee, not so much...
@runningwithbulls True about home. I like making it at home also. If it wasn't SB it would be another conglomerate.. If not for the sourcing of coffee by multi-nationals and globalisation, how many thousands would be dying of malnutrition and disease? Open markets are a boon to many producers of coffee..
@alexia: nothing wrong with buying the coffee in bulk, and doing business...but Starbucks "allegedly" are funking barstewards when it comes to giving the local producer and the local coffee buyer (who sells it onto the exporter) a fair price for their coffee.
@runningwithbulls I'm not here to necessarily support or give reasons for reports of alleged ripping off of local producers. SB is a multinational company that sell coffee. I don't buy SB coffee because of values, I buy it (as well as other coffee products) because I want a refreshing drink. Values, I'm sure are built into the sales pitch of their own marketing message.
Oh for fuck's sake, more of this Che Guevara anti-coke anti-starbucks bollox. You do realise Nokia buys in stuff from military regimes too right? http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=14117 I assume you don't fly in planes because of where oil comes from, or use anything plastic, again because of where most oil comes from?
Che Guevara? Coke? Nokia? Oil? Who mentioned any of those things, Damien?
One thing I can't stand is this tendency to lump any given protest or vocal unhappiness with corporations together with any other. Just accuse everyone of being a hippie and a communist and wonder aloud how they can be so two-faced as to board an aeroplane... that'll sort the whole world out for sure.
Sort the world? Who wants to sort the world? I don't care about the world and I don't want to boost my own self-importance by making people think I have some kind of social conscience. What I'd like though is for people to let me drink a fucking coffee without starting the faux bullshit "think of the [insertLatestCrowdToPity]" crap that's forced down ones throat.
The Starbucks haters are akin to the Coke haters who are akin to those who hold vigils for the likes of Che and celebrate him at meetings in Dublin. All these Indymedia cranks do fuck all for real causes and think they can change the world by sitting on their holes and pasting links to campaigns they support by being part of a Facebook group.
If you try and morally guilt trip people about their consumption choices for one product but happily pretend everything you yourself consume is corruption free then you are just like all those other idiots who throw paint over people wearing furs and then drive off in your Shell oil powered car.
Want to change the world? Get a rifle, overthrow the Government, become a dictator and ban free trade.
You can't do it all so let's not bother doing anything?
I don't like the badge-wearing "I support all the coolest causes" crowd either, but no matter what the cause you can be damn sure of having at least one contributor with the attitude you just expressed -- the ultra-hip counter-counter-culture attitude. Nothing more constructive to add to the conversation than "go get a wash you smelly hippies".
I'd gladly listen to the opinions of a thousand dread-locked, badge-wearing, students over that argumentative shite any day of the week.
what can of worms have I opened...right here we go!
@alexia: sure. your choice to buy it. I hope its nice...coz you're going to hell!!! :P Nah, you're not.
@damien: my first complaint about Starbucks was the coffee is shit. The second complaint was they do give "credit" to the people who sell the beans.
You got pissed when some alleged "cowboy" ripped off your blog content-rightly so. It's yours therefore someone has to give you credit, buy it off you whatever....
So, whats wrong with getting Starbucks to give the poor bastards who produce the coffee beans a few more fucking pennies? I'm sure it won't break Starbucks if they give them a good deal. Starbucks are a big company, they'll do business...but whats wrong with making them play fair? I'm not asking for SB to give away free money and come on all Oprah fucking Winfrey, just give them a good price...thats business.
With regards guilt tripping people-I wouldn't even bother. No point...I really don't give a shit what anyone wants to do with their money. You can buy bottles of yak-wee for all I care. Your money....I just hope the yak farmer gets a good price for the yak-wee :P
Its not that I care about them over whoever else....its that the small guy always gets fucked.
@damien: nope, its not Cue Guevara loving crap at all. Do I know Nokia do nasty things? Sure, of course they do.
With regards the toxic chemical substances in phones, well everyone will benefit when governments outlaw the use of that kinda crap in electronics (its happening slowly but surely-Toshiba had to do it. Happy-clappy Apple still manufacture electronics with toxic shit in them...no-one seems to care either).
with regards the oil, well up til a few months ago I didn't own a car, so I think I have a few credits stored up :) Given the opportunity, I'd prefer not to have a car....but thats the fucked up situation of the world. I do however have a choice when it comes to coffee.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to turn up the hotel room heating, then go to the sauna and then get into the oil powered taxi to go to artifically heated outdoor beergarden!
this 'throwing paint at fur wearers and driving off in cars' sounds like a right lark - where do I sign up ? do I bring my own paint ? Is it a group activity ? If we do this en masse won't the getaway be a bit like school-run traffic ? As for the che-lovin' coke-hatin' - I'm not sure I'd be down with that. If 36 years on this earth has taught me anything it's never to trust a stencil or a man with a 'tache.
@runningwithbulls You are certainly entitled to your opinions on the taste of the coffee. As are we SB fans..
On the issue of credit... SB is business paying market prices.. Just what are you intending to do here? Replace legitimate international trade with state controlled imports/exports.. Sounds like a society that I wouldn't like to live in.. What's next state controlled reproduction? 1984 scenario?
We see increasing levels of fair-trade produce coming into our stores. Produce that is raised and marketed to international food and drink companies by local cooperative in poorer countries... Consciously buying this produce supports these producers to the tune of more $ in their pockets.. So instead of bitching about international companies who actually pay market rates to producers, why don't naysayers go ahead and buy products that pay more to producers..
Damien is correct. None of us is innocent. Instead of trying to absolve guilt by standing back and adopting the PC hippie rhetoric, people should be cogniscent of that none of us are lily white. They should take off their sandles and face facts..
Damien creates content product for his blog. He owns it. Someone takes it from his site and uses it. They use his product without his full permission.
Coffee grower guys create a unique product. Someone gives them shit pay for it (so close to zero that neglible). They take control of their product.
Damien kicks up a fuss (like I said, rightly so) and gets them to back down from their stupid threats.
The coffee guys get help from "bleeding hearts" and people who would like to see them to earn an average fucking living. And they get a better business deal.
I would like to see coffee companies pay a better price (I am staying away from the words "fair trade"). Yes of course people have a decision, like I said, to buy whatever the fark they like.
Like I said, my first point was that SB coffee is not particularly nice. It also costs more than nice coffee you can get from other smaller shops.
And with regards us/you/them/me being lilly white....of course no one is. Definately not me..but thats another thread...
Is there somewhere that says you can't have a different opinion to everyone else?
Sounds like a society that I wouldn't like to live in.. What's next state controlled reproduction? 1984 scenario?
@bernie I don't think the people in SB in Dame Street would really care! :)
@lnoonan AFAIK, they do. In US, anyway.. Not sure about over here. However, one has to ask for Fair Trade certified coffee. In 2005, they were the largest US buyer of FT certified coffee beans, with over 11 million lbs.
I think it would make for good PR and good for producers if they migrated completely to fair trade. I know they have certain beans etc but Insomnia garnered a considerable amount of press coverage when they switched 100 % to fair trade.
Our canteen in TI switched to 100% fair trade as did a number of hotels in Thurles as part of the fair trade town initiative.
I don't want to stereo type myself as belonging to any particular camp but I do believe that you can have your coffee and drink it and help some one at the same time.
34 comments so far
OOooohhhh I could go for one of those! Its no Starbucks but the coffee in that place over by S&N was pretty good, swing be there for your morning fix maybe?
1 year, 7 months ago by johnnypez
I'd nearly hop on a plane back to Toronto to grab one. One of the first things I intend on doing there next year. Haven't been to that coffee place since (across town), may wind up there later in desperation.
1 year, 7 months ago by kenmcguire
Hmm - about to do a Starbucks run here... I guess I shouldn't be rubbing it in. :)
1 year, 7 months ago by lexia
I guess I could always call up to Cork Airport for a Starbucks
1 year, 7 months ago by DamienMulley
1 year, 7 months ago by lexia
Starbucks sucks eggs! Whatever happened to REAL coffee?!
1 year, 7 months ago by Evertb
Do not insult the SB.. He can be a vengeful master..
1 year, 7 months ago by lexia
Settling instead for a cup of tea in the office. Coffee machine in nearby shop is gone to pieces altogether and don't up for the drive to town for a coffee. We'll see what this afternoon brings. I will have my white chocolate mocha!
1 year, 7 months ago by kenmcguire
@evertb: got to agree with you. Starbucks don't make coffee they make Starbucks coffee...Its horrible.
Get a little book called the "coffee connoisseurs handbook" get yourself a coffee pot and start experimenting.
@alexia @ken: Please ask the SB monster for its forgiveness.
1 year, 7 months ago by runningwithbulls
@runningwithbulls Is not SB coffee a specialisation of coffee? Semantics I know.. There is no forgiveness from SB monster
1 year, 7 months ago by lexia
@runningwithbulls I still go by the Denis Leary quote: "Mochacino, Frapocinno, Al Pacino, what the fuck!?"
1 year, 7 months ago by Evertb
@alexia: there is no reason why you can't make these specialisation coffees at home too. I just don't like the way SB sells there coffee. And how they source it. They make great mugs, but coffee, not so much...
/me goes hides in the dark
1 year, 7 months ago by runningwithbulls
@runningwithbulls True about home. I like making it at home also. If it wasn't SB it would be another conglomerate.. If not for the sourcing of coffee by multi-nationals and globalisation, how many thousands would be dying of malnutrition and disease? Open markets are a boon to many producers of coffee..
1 year, 7 months ago by lexia
@alexia: nothing wrong with buying the coffee in bulk, and doing business...but Starbucks "allegedly" are funking barstewards when it comes to giving the local producer and the local coffee buyer (who sells it onto the exporter) a fair price for their coffee.
This link is a little old, but still explains my point.
SB are a values company....with a "culture"...and they were screwing over the producers...no better than Nike, Tommy Hellfinger..
1 year, 7 months ago by runningwithbulls
@alexia: also with regards SB, earlier this year they were pressured into giving Ethiopian producers rights to the intellictual property of their distinctive coffee beans.
1 year, 7 months ago by runningwithbulls
@runningwithbulls I'm not here to necessarily support or give reasons for reports of alleged ripping off of local producers. SB is a multinational company that sell coffee. I don't buy SB coffee because of values, I buy it (as well as other coffee products) because I want a refreshing drink. Values, I'm sure are built into the sales pitch of their own marketing message.
1 year, 7 months ago by lexia
Oh for fuck's sake, more of this Che Guevara anti-coke anti-starbucks bollox. You do realise Nokia buys in stuff from military regimes too right? http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=14117 I assume you don't fly in planes because of where oil comes from, or use anything plastic, again because of where most oil comes from?
1 year, 7 months ago by DamienMulley
I don't give an aeronautical intercourse who they support or where they buy their coffee, it still sucks eggs...
1 year, 7 months ago by Evertb
Che Guevara? Coke? Nokia? Oil? Who mentioned any of those things, Damien?
One thing I can't stand is this tendency to lump any given protest or vocal unhappiness with corporations together with any other. Just accuse everyone of being a hippie and a communist and wonder aloud how they can be so two-faced as to board an aeroplane... that'll sort the whole world out for sure.
1 year, 7 months ago by micflan
Sort the world? Who wants to sort the world? I don't care about the world and I don't want to boost my own self-importance by making people think I have some kind of social conscience. What I'd like though is for people to let me drink a fucking coffee without starting the faux bullshit "think of the [insertLatestCrowdToPity]" crap that's forced down ones throat.
The Starbucks haters are akin to the Coke haters who are akin to those who hold vigils for the likes of Che and celebrate him at meetings in Dublin. All these Indymedia cranks do fuck all for real causes and think they can change the world by sitting on their holes and pasting links to campaigns they support by being part of a Facebook group.
If you try and morally guilt trip people about their consumption choices for one product but happily pretend everything you yourself consume is corruption free then you are just like all those other idiots who throw paint over people wearing furs and then drive off in your Shell oil powered car.
Want to change the world? Get a rifle, overthrow the Government, become a dictator and ban free trade.
1 year, 7 months ago by DamienMulley
You can't do it all so let's not bother doing anything?
I don't like the badge-wearing "I support all the coolest causes" crowd either, but no matter what the cause you can be damn sure of having at least one contributor with the attitude you just expressed -- the ultra-hip counter-counter-culture attitude. Nothing more constructive to add to the conversation than "go get a wash you smelly hippies".
I'd gladly listen to the opinions of a thousand dread-locked, badge-wearing, students over that argumentative shite any day of the week.
1 year, 7 months ago by micflan
Aaaww Damien, that's the universe fucked for good. We agree on matters two days in a row?!
1 year, 7 months ago by Evertb
I'm taking tomorrow off so.
1 year, 7 months ago by DamienMulley
what can of worms have I opened...right here we go!
@alexia: sure. your choice to buy it. I hope its nice...coz you're going to hell!!! :P Nah, you're not. @damien: my first complaint about Starbucks was the coffee is shit. The second complaint was they do give "credit" to the people who sell the beans.
You got pissed when some alleged "cowboy" ripped off your blog content-rightly so. It's yours therefore someone has to give you credit, buy it off you whatever....
So, whats wrong with getting Starbucks to give the poor bastards who produce the coffee beans a few more fucking pennies? I'm sure it won't break Starbucks if they give them a good deal. Starbucks are a big company, they'll do business...but whats wrong with making them play fair? I'm not asking for SB to give away free money and come on all Oprah fucking Winfrey, just give them a good price...thats business.
With regards guilt tripping people-I wouldn't even bother. No point...I really don't give a shit what anyone wants to do with their money. You can buy bottles of yak-wee for all I care. Your money....I just hope the yak farmer gets a good price for the yak-wee :P
Its not that I care about them over whoever else....its that the small guy always gets fucked.
@damien: nope, its not Cue Guevara loving crap at all. Do I know Nokia do nasty things? Sure, of course they do. With regards the toxic chemical substances in phones, well everyone will benefit when governments outlaw the use of that kinda crap in electronics (its happening slowly but surely-Toshiba had to do it. Happy-clappy Apple still manufacture electronics with toxic shit in them...no-one seems to care either). with regards the oil, well up til a few months ago I didn't own a car, so I think I have a few credits stored up :) Given the opportunity, I'd prefer not to have a car....but thats the fucked up situation of the world. I do however have a choice when it comes to coffee.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to turn up the hotel room heating, then go to the sauna and then get into the oil powered taxi to go to artifically heated outdoor beergarden!
/me puts on the flame retardent suit.
1 year, 7 months ago by runningwithbulls
@damienmulley rifles, etc. Isn't that what the real Che did?
1 year, 7 months ago by Festoon
this 'throwing paint at fur wearers and driving off in cars' sounds like a right lark - where do I sign up ? do I bring my own paint ? Is it a group activity ? If we do this en masse won't the getaway be a bit like school-run traffic ? As for the che-lovin' coke-hatin' - I'm not sure I'd be down with that. If 36 years on this earth has taught me anything it's never to trust a stencil or a man with a 'tache.
1 year, 7 months ago by sxoop
Starbucks pay people, I had my content stolen. You can see a difference right?
1 year, 7 months ago by DamienMulley
@runningwithbulls You are certainly entitled to your opinions on the taste of the coffee. As are we SB fans..
On the issue of credit... SB is business paying market prices.. Just what are you intending to do here? Replace legitimate international trade with state controlled imports/exports.. Sounds like a society that I wouldn't like to live in.. What's next state controlled reproduction? 1984 scenario?
We see increasing levels of fair-trade produce coming into our stores. Produce that is raised and marketed to international food and drink companies by local cooperative in poorer countries... Consciously buying this produce supports these producers to the tune of more $ in their pockets.. So instead of bitching about international companies who actually pay market rates to producers, why don't naysayers go ahead and buy products that pay more to producers..
Damien is correct. None of us is innocent. Instead of trying to absolve guilt by standing back and adopting the PC hippie rhetoric, people should be cogniscent of that none of us are lily white. They should take off their sandles and face facts..
1 year, 7 months ago by lexia
And gold star for @festoon!
1 year, 7 months ago by DamienMulley
I printed this thread and left it behind with my coffee rings on two tables in Starbucks, Dame Street, Ireland.
1 year, 7 months ago by topgold
@damien: yes they pay people.
Damien creates content product for his blog. He owns it. Someone takes it from his site and uses it. They use his product without his full permission.
Coffee grower guys create a unique product. Someone gives them shit pay for it (so close to zero that neglible). They take control of their product.
Damien kicks up a fuss (like I said, rightly so) and gets them to back down from their stupid threats.
The coffee guys get help from "bleeding hearts" and people who would like to see them to earn an average fucking living. And they get a better business deal.
Sure, they were paid but pretty much fuck all.
@alexia: Hold on to your 1984 analogies!
I would like to see coffee companies pay a better price (I am staying away from the words "fair trade"). Yes of course people have a decision, like I said, to buy whatever the fark they like.
Like I said, my first point was that SB coffee is not particularly nice. It also costs more than nice coffee you can get from other smaller shops.
And with regards us/you/them/me being lilly white....of course no one is. Definately not me..but thats another thread...
Is there somewhere that says you can't have a different opinion to everyone else?
Sounds like a society that I wouldn't like to live in.. What's next state controlled reproduction? 1984 scenario?
@bernie I don't think the people in SB in Dame Street would really care! :)
1 year, 7 months ago by runningwithbulls
Other coffee companies such as insomnia have managed to switch to fair trade beans, What is stopping the likes of SB doing the same?
1 year, 7 months ago by lnoonan
@lnoonan AFAIK, they do. In US, anyway.. Not sure about over here. However, one has to ask for Fair Trade certified coffee. In 2005, they were the largest US buyer of FT certified coffee beans, with over 11 million lbs.
1 year, 7 months ago by lexia
I think it would make for good PR and good for producers if they migrated completely to fair trade. I know they have certain beans etc but Insomnia garnered a considerable amount of press coverage when they switched 100 % to fair trade.
Our canteen in TI switched to 100% fair trade as did a number of hotels in Thurles as part of the fair trade town initiative.
I don't want to stereo type myself as belonging to any particular camp but I do believe that you can have your coffee and drink it and help some one at the same time.
1 year, 7 months ago by lnoonan